Telling Lies Is Bad, for All People of Faith

I was afraid I’d gone overboard in a comment at Kevin Drum’s place, in which I claimed that Amy Sullivan charges Democrats with “fear and loathing” of religion.

But no.  She actually referred to the Democrats’ “traditional fight- or-flight reaction to religion.”  In that Time magazine column, she began with two sentences of praise for Obama and Clinton before descending into an article criticizing the Kerry campaign.  That’s not particularly cutting edge, helpful, or truthful.

One of her attack anecdotes is that a Kerry supporter in Ohio was told by “one of the campaign’s Ohio field directors” that “We don’t do white churches.”  First off, I don’t buy it.  Second off, if true, that’s the sort of off-the-reservation behavior that, if brought to light, would result in a one-way ticket off of campaign staff.

It’s perfectly reasonable to say that the Democrats shouldn’t be afraid of reaching out to evangelicals.  It is false and stupid to say that Democrats hate religion.  Sullivan’s career is built on saying the latter.


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5 Responses to “Telling Lies Is Bad, for All People of Faith”

  1. southernvoice Says:

    No it isn’t true that Democrats hate religion. My Christian granddaddy was a democrat my Chrisitan daddy was a democrat and I’ve been a life long Christian democrat.

    The Democratic party was called the party of the Big Tent because everyone was welcome and it represented everything that America stood for. Christianity, minorites of every stripe and tolerance and diversity and freedom and the consitution and American culture, heritage and religion.

    Its the &%#*@ liberals and Jews out of the northeast, who control the party and its hateful anti-Christian bigoted liberal propaganda, with their money who hate Christians and their religion and American tradition. It is they who have destroyed the party of the Big Tent so that we can’t win elections any longer because of their cultrual wars against everything American including our religion.

    Here is an article from a Jewish liberal website owned by Robert Reich whose econmic policies I agree with btw. The article is written by a Jew, Harold Meyerson, about another Jew, Irving Berlin, and it openly and provokatively boasts about the Jewish attacks upon Christainity and Irving Berlin’s modest contributions.

    Here is an article about the Jewish Leo Struass and his philosophy and he explains why the Jews had to attack America and everything it stood for in order that they could replace the old ruling class WASPs.

    We’ve seen over the past 8 years what Jewish ruling types represent. So how do you like their version of America so far? How do you like what they do to our parties, our government and our country not to mention what they protend for our futures.

    You are correct not to believe that Democrats are anti-religious. Its the liberals and jews who are the anti-christian bigots who’ve destroyed our party. Just to show that they are equal opportunity bigots who are a clear threat to us the neocons are now in the process of taking over and destroying the republican party.

    Read it and weep.

    Vote Nader. Avoid McCain, Clinton and Obama who are Jewish bought and paid for. How am I doing so far Elvis.

  2. Elvis Elvisberg Says:

    I grew up, of Irish descent, in the Northeast, with many Jewish friends.

    All of us would have been rejected as unfit to be Americans by a large number of the American elite of years past.

    But American ideals transcend race, ethnicity, and religion.

    Even though I’m not religious, and even though my ancestors are Catholics, my love of this country is as bone-deep as my love of my family or the Red Sox. And it was taken for granted by everyone around me. We grew up where the Revolutionary War started. We were steeped in those ideals— however imperfectly we have lived up to them over time— from our earliest moments.

    I am a northeastern liberal. And I have no idea what this “hateful anti-Christian bigoted liberal propaganda” that you’re so upset about could possibly be. I don’t know anyone who “hate[s] Christians and their religion and American tradition.” No one who’s anywhere near anything remotely resembling power in the Democratic Party would ever dream of saying that religion is a bad thing.

    Criticize policies and criticize statements as you see fit, southernvoice. But your targeting of Jews is baseless and offensive.

  3. southernvoice Says:

    Did you read the links I provided?

    Did we get involved between England and Ireland so that we caused the IRA to come to America and commit a terrorist act on 9-11? Name one other country besides Israel for which we sacrifice our own interests. Doesn’t Great Britian follow us and help us rather than the other way around?

    Name one foreign leader who can make demands of our White House the way the Israeli leaders can.

    Is Israel not demanding that we bomb Iran? Name one other nation that is demanding that we bomb Iran.

    Bill Berkowitz has a column called “Christian Watch” at Ben and Jerry’s website. He stated that Christians are the enemies of America. I wrote to him and asked him how he would feel if someone named Billy Bob had a column at a major internet website called Jew Watch and called Jews the enemies of America.

    How would you feel about that Elvis. Would you find Billy Bob’s column offensive?

    Berkowitz changed the name of his column to Conservative Watch but if you read it you can see he still has the same agenda. How about Ben and Jerry. do you find them offensive.

    Liberal websites link themselves to Patriot Boy. Can you tell me that they would link to any democrat who did the same things to Jews that Patriot Boy does to Jesus and Christians? Please tell me that liberals treat jews and Christians equally and fairly.

    You say that my comments are offensive but Liberals do not find Patriot Boy’s comments offensive. Can you explain that. Can you explain how Christians across the country are supposed to preceive the liberals and Jews out of the northeast as nice people when they do these things?

    At liberal websites like Bob Fertics they call for getting Christians out of government. What do you think a person would be called if we suggested that we need to get Jews out of government?

    When we first invaded Iraq the liberals literally scapegoated Christians for those policies. They lied. Clearly they can’t blame it on them today because we know it was Jewish neocons in Bush’s White House who were behind the holocaust against Israel’s enemies.

    The liberals certainly haven’t transended religion or you wouldn’t have brought the subject up and attempted to defend the Liberals in the first place.

    You can watch Jon Stewart or Bill Maher and listen to their scapegoating and stereotying of Christians for everything but you will NEVER hear them mention Jews even tho most of the neocons are Jewish Zionists who have lived in Israel or who have family there still.

    Rahm Emanuel is the democrat who chooses party nominees. He was born in Isarel and served in its military and now he’s a kingmaker in the United States government. Google his family and read about his Father.

    Why did the liberal moneybags give Al Gore the boot and then force John Kerry off on us. Whether a liberal or a neocon got into the White HOuse our policies toward the middle east would be the same.

    Since millions of democrats marched against war and that was the main issue facing us can you explain why the liberals did that? How should the democrats in the heartland view these northeastern liberals based upon where they take our party? What right do these same damn liberals have to scapegoat Christians when it is they, not us, who are doing everything to subvert American traditions, heritage, the Consitution and everything we are supposed to stand for?

    jews have enormous influence on our culture and our government and media and we should not be told that they are just innocent bystanders who bear no responsibilities for the direction our country is going.

    I have as much right to oppose Jews in government as they have to oppose the Christian right.

    Will you explain why no one is allowed to even discuss Jewish politics? Please explain to me why I must not talk about them because I truly want to know.

    If I made statements about Christians or Muslims, you might disagree with them but you would never tell me that you found them offensive. Isn’t that a clue?

    Christians have always run the government. There has never been a time in our history when Christians were not in every level of government in the United States of America and in every department and in every branch. Will you please explain to me at what point they suddenly became the enemies of America?

    Can you imagine a senario where 2% of the population of China could become white and could accuse the Chinese people of being the enemies of China. Can you imagine that the Chinese people would be accused of being offensive if they opposed those whites?

    That is what has happened to America isn’t it? Can you tell me who is opposing Christians and demanding that we get them out of their own government? Are Christians demanding that they get themselves out of government?

    Today we are discouraged from debating. We must not think about things. We must follow in lockstep with the liberal propaganda put out by the moneybags.

    How can we grow and learn if we never debate. Teach me where I am wrong.

  4. Elvis Elvisberg Says:

    I’ve never heard of Bill Berkowitz or Bob Fertics, and, while I think I’ve heard of him, I’ve never read Patriot Boy. The fact that you can identify 3 fringe figures out of America’s population who have said things that you don’t like indicates to me that the US is a democracy. Somebody somewhere is going to be saying something that you don’t like.

    As to bombing Iran, it is false to say that Israel supports that. Opinion in Israel is always more divided than the cartoonish debate over Israeli security in the US.

    If I made statements about Christians or Muslims, you might disagree with them but you would never tell me that you found them offensive.

    That is false.

    Here is where you are wrong: in your belief that Christians are persecuted (list the religions of all US Congressmen and cabinet members), and that the world is so simple that ethnicity determines opinion.

  5. southernvoice Says:

    Have you heard of Ben and Jerry the ice cream guys? They have a website It is a liberal website. These guys are rich and they are liberal and they are politically active and they put out news (liberal propaganda). The Clintons visited their home when they vacationed in Martha’s Vineyard.

    Bill Berkowitz writes for a CA newspaper and he writes for Ben and Jerry. Ben and Jerry and Berkowitz are liberal Jews who write for the left wing internet. They write things about Chrisitans that you would deem “offensive” if it were said about Jews.

    Robert Reich was Bill Clinton’s secretary of labor. Is his website fringe.

    Bob Fertic owns How can a website called be fringe.

    Can you please name a website that you consider to be leftwing and major? Please name one for me. has put jokes about southerners on there and they have Bill Maher columns where he talks like Chrisitans and southern people are from another country while he and others of his ilk are the real America. Are bill Maher and salon fringe? Is Jon Stewart fringe. Most of the poeple who write for Salon are Jewish.





    Leo Struass was a philosopher who taught the Jews that they had to disguise their true aims in order to replace the old ruling class WASPs. Yeah I’d say that is persecution of Christians in a way. Call it whatever you like but I am not inventing Strauss. He existed and he was a philospher at the University of Chicago.

    The neocons are Straussians. The neocons are ruling us from the White House. duh. You figure it out. At this point I am beginning to think you might not have the brains for that.

    I gave you this link

    Did you not bother to read it. I am not making up leo strauss and I am not making up his philosophy.

    YOU list all the religions of Congressmen and tell me why most of them wouldn’t be Christian since they live in a country where the population of Christians has always been in the 90s and the percentage of believers today is 85% of the population.

    Explain to me what percentage of the population is Jewish (2%) and compare that to their percentage in the Congress, media and the White House. How many Jewish appointments has Bush made compared to how many Christians he has appointed to major posts.

    Chrisitans should not have to excuse or explain their presence in our Congress or our media. This has always been a Christian nation and our ruling class has always been White Anglo Saxon Protestant. Rememeber when we got our first Catholic President.

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